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A Dive into Dendro Vision/Archon, Sumeru, and Dendro Characters


https://preview.redd.it/3hb8ngv5g1061.jpg?width=202&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8b065bd27ee6ad8b892b9a6b4ed3676a941e950
I’d like to start this with a huge disclaimer that most of these are speculations that I've gathered from a week long deep dive into genshin lore. I have also made these speculations based on the fact that Sumeru is based on or influenced by Middle Eastern and South Asian cultures. If there are any stuff i missed feel free to reply! (english is also not my first language, pardon the mistakes)
This essay? paper? will be divided in 3 parts
  1. Sumeru
  2. Dendro Vision / Archon
  3. Dendro characters
    1. Yaoyao
    2. Baizhu
First we have to ask. Why no dendro, mihoyo? I like to think there are two possibilities ;
  1. Mihoyo ran out of time or resources or whatever. This is highly unlikely though, considering the amount of work they've created. To just not include one because of technical issues and such does not seem professional.
  2. They left out dendro on purpose for storytelling reasons. This is the most plausible explanation. Though I don’t know why they would, considering the dendro archon’s story would be in Chapter 3. But if you think about how they do things by patches it would make more sense, letting the players focus on the next chapter instead of two or three chapters ahead when it’s not necessary.
SUMERU
With that’ let’s begin with what we know about Sumeru based on canon lore.
Sumeru is introduced in the Teyvat Chapter Story Preview with the following information:
SUMERU ; Truth Amongst the Pages of Purana ; “The God of Wisdom's enemy is wisdom itself, and the oasis of knowledge is a mirage in the desert of ignorance. In the city of scholars there is a push for folly, yet the God of Wisdom makes no argument against it.” (subtitle: Beneath the flowers, a light of wisdom (disputable, many different interpretations of the latin words) )
We also know that Sumeru is the place of wisdom, knowledge, and that it is under the rule of the Dendro Archon.

GEOGRAPHY:

From customs of Liyue Vol.2, the Sumeru scholar Fadhlan says this about his homeland “The raving-mad sages of the nation of rainforests drive themselves to hysterics as they abandon all that is worldly in their pursuit of elusive and esoteric wisdom,”
It is also worth noting that lots of Sumeru scholars and locals can be found in Liyue, Liyue is South/South-East of Mondstadt. Theoretically this would place Sumeru on the left of Liyue, neighbors. However, we know that the area next to Liyue is The Chasm. The Chasm is apparently sealed away by the Ministry of Civil Affairs. Now, the Chasm seems to be just a part of Liyue still, hence Sumeru (and Mare Jivari) would be further west, past Chasm. My only evidence to support this are videos of people who glitched through the Chasm in Closed Beta 2, where we could see sandy/rocky textures. Although after the 1.1 patch it seems the landscape of The Chasm has changed, going for rockier and greener pastures instead.
speculation
There seems to be another location in Teyvat that’s connected to Sumeru. Mare Jivari. It’s whereabouts are southwest of Mondstadt, said to be a place where the wind does not blow and contains a sea of ashes (that burns). Mare Jivari is mentioned several times, notably in the Lavawalker artifact set, Wanderer’s Troupe, and in Stanley the Adventurer’s dialogue.
Therefore we could say Sumeru is preceded by a desert, if we assume the location of Mare Jivari is right before we enter Sumeru.
Therefore, Sumeru has both desert and rainforest biomes.
This would work hand in hand with the idea that Sumeru is a melting-pot of Middle-East and South Asian cultures.

PEOPLE

It has a renowned academia where people/scholars come to study, one of those people being Lisa. This is also true to what Sumeru NPCs and NPCs that have visited Sumeru have to say about the region as most of them are traveling scholars.
Lisa’s Story 5 has this to say about the scholars of Sumeru ;
“Having personally witnessed raving-mad scholars in the forests of Sumeru and powerful sages sitting underutilized advisory councils, Lisa realized what uninhibited erudition can really do to a person.
It seemed such a high price to pay... How much did one have to sacrifice to attain the profoundest knowledge at all?
Put off by this realization, Lisa decided to leave Sumeru.”
The people of Sumeru, particularly the scholars, seem to have an obsession with gaining knowledge. They are after all at the hub and frontier of knowledge acquisition.
People from Sumeru are acquainted with astrology
“(Traveler): I wonder if the fates of people from Teyvat are also related to their constellation?
Paimon: Oh? Do you know how to read the stars, too? That's amazing! Not a lot of people outside of Sumeru can do it.”
Another group of people said to be connected to the stars are those from Khaenri’ah, the long gone ancient civilization. It wouldn’t surprise me if people of Sumeru could read stars since the studies of the universe could lead to acquiring knowledge not from the world, and with the obsession of the scholars, of course they would learn to read and interpret the stars.
Known characters from Sumeru;
Cyno (manga) ; a scholar
Collei (manga) ; young girl that was experimented on
Soraya ; scholar at wangshu inn
Sayid ; traveling scholar at mondstadt
Alrani ; soraya’s classmate
Crimson Witch ; maiden student at Sumeru who created the Crimson Witch of Flames artifact set

CULTURE

In regards to their culture, we know they’ve got a signature drink as Zhongli says in one of the Liyue quests.
Zhongli: It must be said that the famed liquor of the Land of Pastorals is far better than Sumeru's frigid snake wine.
Snakes and serpents have varied meanings tied to it but the most common is that it’s a symbol of rebirth or healing. I can’t say much more but there’s a chance snakes could be a prominent motif in the region (going by the speculation that Baizhu could have gone to Sumeru to study medicine* see his section for more detail)

SPECULATION

Now here is where I’m going to implement some Honkai elements, because I spent hours reading their manga and stumbled upon a very peculiar find. So spoilers for the manga if you don’t want to be spoiled feel free to skip!
We know that Honkai and Genshin exist as parallel universes of one another, we can see Dvalin in a Honkai interview. (insert image)
In the series Second Key, valkyrie Bianka is sent inside the second divine key and meets a mysterious man named Su sitting under a large tree with a leaf in his hand. Su says that they are currently in a bubble universe (universes that no longer exist iirc.) and he’s named the divine key Seed of Sumeru. What this divine key does basically is allow its user the ability to analyze and observe parallel universes. By the end of the Second Key series, Su hands over the leaf to Bianka before she leaves, saying that it has a record of all the important parallel universes that will help against the war against the Honkai. Later on the leaf goes on to write “the answer you seek lies on the other side of the Tree.”
Now. I have a whole other theory on the possible connections, but to stay on topic let’s look at the seed’s name. I don’t think it’s a coincidence they used the name Sumeru here, and I don’t think it’s just some lazy copy paste either. Sumeru being linked with wisdom and the pursuit of knowledge, would be the perfect name to an object that allows you to peer into other universes.
So where does that leave us? Without spilling into other theories, I speculate that since Sumeru people are good at reading the stars, perhaps there is a tree or even just a branch with leaves like Su’s Seed of Sumeru.

https://preview.redd.it/1nsxo1b5g1061.jpg?width=1564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14cd17c009246e1bc935bd37a05b0d299a22bdbf
DENDRO VISION / ARCHON
What we know of the Dendro Archon comes from Ganyu in the 3rd chapter of the Liyue arc. She says that the Dendro Archon is the youngest at 500 years old. Now what I’m uncertain of is if she’s referring to the past Dendro Archon (part of the OG 7) or is she referring to the current dendro archon?
Further regards to the current Dendro Archon can be found in the Chapter Storyline trailer where Dainsleif speaks of the Dendro Archon in the line “In the city of scholars there is a push for folly, yet the God of Wisdom makes no argument against it.” It seems like the Archon is sitting in the middle of whatever conflict is going on in their region and does not take any sides. Perhaps they are busy themselves, head too deep in the books and scrolls that they disregard the people of Sumeru. I wonder if by the end of the arc their gnosis would be taken too, perhaps the wisdom of the Archon sees it as something inevitable.
As for dendro visions, my first instinct is to think that their skillset would be like that of the dendro slime and dendro samachurls. This includes healing and manipulation of floars (like making thorn barriers). Other than that I’m not sure what kind of powers they would have. And of course the elemental reaction they’d have is Burn (+pyro), but maybe Mihoyo could introduce new elemental reactions?
DENDRO CHARACTERS
Currently only two in the game, looks like Yaoyao is going to appear first before Baizhu.

YAOYAO

What we know about Yaoyao is that she’s currently Ganyu’s assistant, a catalyst dendro user, and was under the same master chef as Xiangling. While not much is known, we do have a few voice lines about her from Qiqi, Xiangling, Ningguang, Beidou.
Beidou - says that Yaoyao often comes aboard the ship when they are at the docks. Beidou seems fond of her.
Ningguang - Comments that Yaoyao has been obsessed with seafood these past few days.
Qiqi - thinks she is cute like a little finch.
Xiangling - sees Yaoyao as a fellow chef but says that she has not visited Wanmin Restaurant for a while now. Interestingly, she recalls Yaoyao telling her off for attempting to eat raw octopus.
We’ve also seen her in the mid autumn festival image alongside Qiqi. Supported by Qiqi’s voiceline about her, we can assume that the two are well acquainted.
We might hear more of her when Ganyu’s banner rolls around.

BAIZHU

This man is actually what started my deep dive into genshin lore and investigating dendro vision/ Sumeru. That being said, I have a whole board with red strings all over it trying to piece together who he is from what scraps we have. We’re going to begin with establishing what we know of him in the game and through interactions or voice lines. Afterwards we will move onto speculations on his character and backstory.
Let’s start with the facts and what we have experienced in-game.
One of our earliests interactions with Baizhu is a comment by Herbalist Gui, the man concocting medicine at Bubu Pharmacy. He says Baizhu has poor constitution and that the doctor has been ill ever since he worked at the pharmacy. He mostly does home visits to his patients.
We finally meet the man himself in Farewell Archaic Lord quest while purchasing incense. We can clearly see that his vision is a dendro one, matching his profession as a doctor who works with herbs. He’s got a talking white snake named Changsheng wrapped around his neck. Zhongli does not recognize him at first. Childe as well. When Zhongli tries to haggle the price of the incense from 3m mora, Baizhu only lowers it to 2.9m mora. And after the scene is done and you talk to him again, his white snake remarks that Baizhu has found another person to fleece, you have been warned. This suggests that Baizhu regularly swindles people buying specialties or even the medicine at the pharmacy.
More canon lore about him can be found in Qiqi’s story and various voice lines from Qiqi, Xingqiu, Xiangling, Keqing, and Xiao (CBT3).
Let’s start with Qiqi, of whom we have the most information about the doctor. It’s only natural because she is his assistant/protege. Her job at the pharmacy is to collect herbs because Baizhu himself is unable to.
When Qiqi reawakens and breaks free from her amber, she instinctively goes to the hills to hide (because she was already a herb picker before) and that is where she ran into Baizhu. From her 5th Story section, it says “Now, Baizhu was a doctor of great skill, but he was hardly a man of high caliber or great courage.” and “It does seem that his acceptance of Qiqi has something to do with his own personal pursuits.”
These two sentences give us an insight into what kind of person he is. It’s first established that he is a skilled doctor (as we come to know later by other voice lines). Next is says “he was hardly a man of high caliber or great courage”. By definition a “high caliber” means of high standards, capability, skill and intelligence. However, that would contradict the first fact of him being a skilled doctor. Therefore, I assume that “high caliber” refers to something else, perhaps aside from his skill and intelligence as a doctor he is pretty basic. It fits with him not having great courage either, which I guess they are talking about in general. So he is a skilled doctor, but is not known for anything else other than that, and has little courage.
Story 3 talks about how Qiqi can order herself around despite being a zombie. It goes on to add that ; “The method to cancel her orders is very simple—hug Qiqi from behind, tell her something like "I love you the most," and the orders will dissipate, just like that.
Unfortunately, there's just no element of sincerity when Baizhu does it, leading to greatly reduced results.”
From this passage, we see that Baizhu is not a very warm person. Or at least not sincerely. Coupled with the fact that he may have his own motivations with having taken Qiqi under his wing, we could see this as either him not wanting to grow attached to her as a family OR he just doesn’t care much about her (at least not enough to be sincere about being affectionate towards her).
Qiqi’s voice lines provide more intrigue into his character. In her About Baizhu… voice line she says “I can never remember Dr. Baizhu's face. But I don't mind.”
This can mean two things; a) she really doesn’t mind and it’s not in her best interest to memorize faces because she forgets so often and he’s a constant in her life even if she doesn’t remember, b) she recognizes Baizhu’s suspicious nature and thus couldn’t care less if she remembers his face. If it’s true he doesn’t sincerely care for her, why should she make the effort to remember his face?
To sum it up, it seems like his relationship with Qiqi is elusive and complicated. We don’t know if Qiqi is fully aware of what schemes he has, or if she is even suspicious of him because most of the information from the story is in third person, perhaps an omniscient point of view that is not Qiqi.
Next are the voice lines of other characters
xiangling - Says he smells like Mist Flowers. Says his traditional herbal medicine tastes very bitter.
xingqiu - Thinks there is more than meets the eye with Qiqi but is unable to speak with her because Baizhu is constantly hovering around her.
Xingqiu is very smart and perceptive, it’s no wonder he’s got an eye out on Qiqi and Baizhu. The interesting part is that he sees Baizhu hovering over Qiqi a lot. But we know he’s rarely seen at the pharmacy because he’s doing house visits. It could mean that Xinqiu has met the doctor more than once during house visits for whatever reason, or he had seen the doctor work at the front desk before he was replaced by Herbalist Gui (assuming that the timeframe was only several years ago).
keqing - Says that people have faith in Baizhu’s work and skill as a doctor. She is not aware of the rumors regarding Baizhu/Bubu Pharmacy, but has been there several times because the bitter medicine has left her with some horrible memories
Here we get more confirmation that Baizhu is indeed a renowned doctor in Liyue. But there are apparently rumors surrounding him. What these rumors could be, I don’t have much to go off about. Like Xingqiu, I believe Keqing has met him at least more than once because she has tasted the medicine prescribed by him.
xiao - Mc wishes for Baizhu to make a medicine to reduce Xiao’s pain to which he says a mortal’s medicine is ineffective on immortals. (this is a translation from CBT3, it could change in the future)

speculation of things connected to him

Mist Flowers - Xiangling says he smells like mist flowers. This is a very peculiar thing to say, mostly because it must be something very important to the character. It’s not everyday you go around telling someone what another person smells like unless it’s profound. Mist flowers are cryo elements, once harvested they are still cold. Currently in the game mist flowers can be used to create frost potions. My speculation is that cryo elements tend to have healing properties, and low temperatures are associated with the undead. This presents us with two possibilities a) He is investigating or researching mist flower properties on Qiqi, a zombie, for whatever reason b) he is investigating or researching mist flower properties on himself as a medicine. Perhaps more sinister uses could be considered although I can’t see what it would be.
Changsheng - The name of his white snake is an interesting one. Changsheng in chinese means “long lived” and is part of a longer phrase commonly found on charms. The full phrase is “长生不老” “chang sheng bu lao” ; to live forever and never become old ; aka immortality. It’s ironic that a man with an incurable illness has a pet snake whose name refers to immortality and good health. Perhaps the snake was a gift wishing him luck?
Name Meaning -
mihoyo rlly picked something so obvious FHGDF doctor named after a medicinal herb
in chinese traditional medicine it's supposed to balance yin+yang. sources say it's a herb that tonify/regulates the qi but also has healing effects in the spleen/stomach region. The taste is warm, bitter, and sweet.
His name could allude to the type of illness he has. when i first saw him i did not connect any dots whatsoever to him being sickly, i only found out after talking with herbalist gui. so his symptoms aren't visible on the surface. This could mean his illness is related to his qi.
Herbalist gui uses the word "poor constitution" to address his condition. He seems to be so sick he can't be at the pharmacy to put medicine together or pick herbs, meaning physical activity is a no no for him. constitution can have two meanings ; health / physique or mental/psychological makeup.

Bubu Pharmacy

probably started as a small pharmacy in the early years of liyue's settlement.
zhongli abt the pharmacy: "the finest pharmacy in all of-(liyue?)"
this means that the pharmacy has built its reputation over the hundreds/thousands of years, meaning it changes bosses over time.
this provides us two possibilities;
baizhu's family has been running the pharmacy OR he inherited it from someone else (his teachemaster, previous boss)
Baizhu coming from a line of doctors could be possible and he's just carrying the legacy of his ancestors
But the second possibility entertains the idea that he has had his illness since he was young and because he wanted to find a way to cure it he either A) studies under previous pharmacy boss or B) goes to Sumeru to study and comes back to Liyue as the pharmacy apprentice

Sumeru

This is the most speculative out of all the baizhu content i have so please take it with a grain of salt! I love reading into things and coming up with theories hehe.
I have speculated that Baizhu is tied to Sumeru because it’s likely he went to study there at some point. Here are the following points I will cover ;
1) clothing style
Considering that Sumeru is a blend of Middle-East and South Asian cultures, it wouldn’t be too far of a stretch in my opinion to say his style is somewhat inspired by them. It still has some Liyue elements to it like his collar shape, but otherwise I would say his outfit really stands out against other Liyue characters. The only other person whose style comes close to him would be Xiao, but mostly in color palette.
Interesting notes about his outfit are his arm guards (one of which reminds me of a bow arm brace), the odd vines (?) wrapping around his left hand, and the fabric with a large snake on it.
2) has a snake pet
Previously mentioned in the Sumeru half of this post, it could be likely that snakes are relevant to Sumeru, perhaps even important creatures. Thus it wouldn’t be weird that he has a snake around his neck if he’s been to Sumeru before. And the fact that he wears fabric that has a snake on it could mean he is tied to the snake (or snake symbol).
3) dendro vision
Pretty obvious. Dendro vision from the dendro archon who rules over Sumeru. Now not all characters have visited the region of their vision (i.e lisa, razor, klee etc) but there if he did go there to study, it would make sense that he received a dendro vision.
4) medicine (collei and cyno return to sumeru to study medicine, further suggesting that if you wanna study to get REAL GOOD you go to Sumeru!!)
Aside from studying magic, it’s suggested that Sumeru is the center of learning, so I guess you can go there to learn anything including medicine.
5) concepts of wisdom and knowledge (skilled doctor = smart, must have obtained that knowledge from somewhere reliable, first hand)
His character design screams stereotypical smart guy because of the glasses and, I think, doctors coat he wears on his shoulder.
6) Suspicious motives
his motives could be fueled by the lust for knowledge that drives sumeru scholars mad > he wants knowledge on how to cure his illness > healing research with mist flowers (among other things)
7) eye color + pupil style
Eye color and iris style is an interesting topic. In Genshin there are 3 sets of characters that share a common thread with their eye color and pupil style. The first is Venti and Zhongli. If you look closely their pupils are brighter, their eyes have a strange glow to them. If the next archon has eyes like this then it could be a trend for all the archons to have light colored pupils.
The second are Dainsleif and Kaeya. Both hail from Khaenri’ah and both have blue colored eyes with a star pupil.
The last one is Baizhu and Cyno. Both characters have this reddish, lava/blood-orange eye color with a yellow bottom half and slitted pupils. Cyno is of Sumeru origins, but we’re not so sure about Baizhu. This is a far fetched theory but he(and yaoyao by extension) might have Sumeru blood. Barnabas, a shaman in the manga, is from Sumeru as well and has slit pupils (although his iris is yellow) Another far fetched on is this is the type of eye shared by dendro users but Cyno isn’t a dendro user as far as we know, but Yaoyao has the same eye color (though no slitted pupils probably due to her child like model). The only odd person out is Sucrose, whose eye color is very similar but is of Mondstadt descent (and has no slitted pupils).
https://preview.redd.it/y3wan2j4g1061.jpg?width=1564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f313d9c265b44cc0e9554f9884d49b77b434e1e8

Ex-Archon ?

There’s a fun little theory going around twitter that he could be an ex-archon and that could explain his deteriorating health. While the theory is fun and cool, and as he is one of my favs it would be great, I don’t think it’s very likely he’s an ex-archon. Otherwise at least Zhongli would have recognized him (unless he’s using a disguise).
CONCLUSION
And that’s the end! Sorry there’s not tldr; I’m not very good at condensing so much info ^^” What do you think? I’d love to hear your opinions and theories on these topics because the idea of dendro visions and Sumeru region is so intriguing for me! There’s a lot of possibilities and things to uncover, I’m excited to see where the story brings us :D
submitted by nikudons to Genshin_Impact

A Logical Refutation to Common Pro Lockdown Arguments

One major problem with pro lockdown arguments is that the vast majority of them are founded on emotion rather than logic. While this is not always a bad thing, when it comes to public policy, emotional decision making is generally frowned upon. This is especially true if the emotion is fear. Humans are naturally scared of what we don’t know, which is why wording such as “the NOVEL coronavirus” tends to scare people. This, coupled with the information that we were receiving last winter, made it a recipe for fear.
Whilst the fear is understandable, what is unacceptable is the way that politicians and world leaders reacted to this. We elect them to make sober, rational, and informed decisions for the good of the country, yet this did not happen. When you are dealing with an outbreak, quarantine is an acceptable response. This is what happened in Wuhan and in Italy. They tried to contain the spread and this was a spectacular failure. The virus spread through Europe, and America was soon to follow.
This was the point where it should have been clear that suppression was impossible. As Professor Gupta noted in her AMA today, #covidzero is an unattainable goal, which is obvious to anybody who is even mildly familiar with the history of infectious diseases. We have only fully eradicated two diseases in human history, so they are essentially asking for a miracle. This was only possible in the earliest stage. Once covid spread outside of the original quarantined areas, it was over, and considering we are not 100% sure of when this virus started, suppression was arguable futile from the start.
So why did we lock down then? The argument presented was to “flatten the curve.” This is probably the most logical the pro lockdown side has ever been because while there are problems with a two-week lockdown, it is not unreasonable. Jonathan Sumption makes an excellent point about this. He says that at this point, there were three possible strategies:[1]
  1. No lockdowns
  2. Lockdown only long enough to make sure hospitals are not overwhelmed
  3. Lockdown until a vaccine
There was, unfortunately, no poll conducted on this, but I am sure very few people in March wanted to choose the third option. This is because it is ridiculous and unrealistic to lockdown for over a year and wait for a vaccine, yet astonishingly, this is the option people opted for. The option presented to us was the second one, yet it has become the third. This was the error in not setting an exit date. If our governments had said “we will begin a lockdown on March 31st and end it on April 14th,” that would have been a separate thing because it would have become clear that this was temporary and that the virus was going to spread no matter what. Instead, many people indulged in this fantasy that we could not only flatten the curve but crush the curve.
This is where the irrationality of the current pro lockdown side comes into play. In March, we were told to shut up and that we were selfish for questioning it. There was no opposition, something to always be wary of, and anybody who questioned lockdowns was “killing grandma.”
Let’s now talk about this first argument. “Shut up, stay at home, stop being selfish, and stop killing grandma.” Well, telling people to shut up is never a logical reaction. It sure sounds like something a fearful person would say though. “Shut up or you’ll get me killed” is similar to “shut up, that guy is gonna shoot you if you keep talking.” I believe that the efforts to silence our side come from a place of fear for this reason. “Shut up” is not a normal reaction to questioning something that has a drastic effect on our lives.
Now, let’s tackle the “stop being selfish” and “killing grandma.” Why are we selfish in their eyes? The typical argument is that we are unwilling to give up whatever it is (haircuts, drinks with friends at the pub, etc) in order to save lives. This made a little more sense in the “two weeks” period (although not much more), but now let’s fast forward a few months and do a quick comparison. You are now asking people to give up socializing for months, an activity that is non optional as human beings are social creatures. I’ve seen pro lockdowners call others “weak” for not being ok with this. I will not dignify that argument with a response.
What else do people give up in order to lock down for months? Well, you have so many losing their jobs, others losing their businesses, children and college students missing out on upwards of a year of in person instruction, and their freedom of movement, something that is in direct violation of Article 13 of the United Nations declaration of human rights.[2] Speaking of human rights, people have been denied medical treatments, the ability to leave their country, job opportunities, the ability to improve their physical and mental health (gym closures), and finally, a notable fraction of human life has been taken away. Next March, this will have lasted a year. To a five-year-old, that is 20% of their life, and small children experience time much more slowly than adults because they still form memories. Half the life you experience is over by age seven.[3] So tell me, who is selfish?
It gets even worse. The selfish argument completely crumbles when you realise that it is possible for those at risk of covid to simply choose to stay at home. People having parties and going to concerts and football games is not going to affect you if you don’t want it to because you and members of your household can quarantine yourselves, so no, they are not killing grandma. Thus, pro lockdowners are essentially demanding that everybody should stop doing anything that either improves their life or makes them happy because they want to hide from the virus. This is the epitome of selfishness. It is not selfish to want to be around other people. That is called being human.
What other arguments exist from the pro lockdown side? The selfish one is their greatest hit, but let’s run down the hit list. “Bad, but not death.”[4] This is illogical because it assumes that covid is a death sentence when the reality is that the mortality rate is around 0.48% for those under 65![5] Further to the point, Governor Cuomo’s idea of what isn’t worse than death might differ from yours or mine. Would you rather be in jail for the rest of your life or be dead? I would choose the latter, but there are people that would choose the former. The point is, one person cannot make such a blanket decision for everybody, and as we already established, covid is far from a death sentence.
Another common argument is “listen to the experts” or “follow the science.” Which experts? What science? There are currently over 12,000 medical & public health scientists who favour the targeted protection approach.[6] That is a staggering number and it begs the question, which experts? There are also likely many more that will not come out in support because of peer pressure. Also, experts in what field? If you are sick, then you should absolutely consult a doctor, but would you go to a pediatrician to get open heart surgery? Then why would you go to only an epidemiologist when considering public policy that will greatly affect the economy, legal precedence, and so much more.
There are more arguments, but it would be impossible to cover each possible one without writing an entire PhD thesis on it. The ones mentioned above are the primary ones. There is also the question of partisanship over this, but this is not within the scope of this essay specifically because it is not a rational argument to accuse anti lockdowners of being trump supporters. As evidenced by LockdownCriticalLeft, this is a bipartisan cause (Dr. Jay Bhattacharya also makes this point in his AMA). In addition, I will not address any pro lockdown arguments accusing us of being conspiracy theorists, because this is blatantly untrue except for a few oddballs.
To conclude, the pro lockdown side is not a side of reason and science. Dissent in science is always a large part of the process, and it is when dissent is suppressed that there is a problem. Copernicus, Galileo, Darwin, Bruno, Hypatia, and many more are evidence of this. Dr. Kulldorff, Dr. Gupta, and Dr. Bhattacharya are brave for coming out and taking a stand, but they shouldn’t have to be. We are better than this, and when I read pro lockdowners wishing death on people like me, it does not convince me of your side. If anything, it will make me resolute to never associate with that kind of cruelty, although I do not believe these people are actually cruel. Fear is a very powerful emotion, but we must not mistake it for logic. Continued lockdowns are not logical at this stage of the game. They are a manifestation of cognitive dissonance, sunk cost fallacy, and fear.
Sources:
[1] Sumption, Jonathan. “The Virus Has Taken Our Liberty. Must It Take Our Humanity as Well?” The Telegraph. Telegraph Media Group, July 27, 2020. Accessed November 17, 2020. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/27/virus-has-taken-liberty-must-take-humanity/.
[2] “Universal Declaration of Human Rights.” United Nations. United Nations. Accessed November 18, 2020. Article 13. https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/.
[3] Swanson, Ana. “Why Half of the Life You Experience Is over by Age 7.” The Washington Post. WP Company, April 26, 2019. Accessed November 17, 2020. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/07/23/haunting-images-show-why-time-really-does-seem-to-go-faster-as-you-get-olde.
[4] Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1Tgmsv9Ao. I can’t bring myself to listen for when he says it, I’m sorry.
[5] “Weekly Epidemiological Update - 17 November 2020.” World Health Organization. World Health Organization. Accessed November 18, 2020. https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/weekly-epidemiological-update---17-november-2020. I calculated the mortality rate by dividing the total number of deaths by the total number of cases. There is a slight uncertainty due to active cases, but it ultimately skews lower because of the high rate of asymptomatic cases that have gone untested. There is also question about the accuracy of certain countries in distinguishing deaths from covid-19 and with covid-19. This mortality rate also does not account for age, so while I mentioned that the calculated mortality for those under 65 is 0.48% the real mortality rate is unquestionably lower, and once you get below 40 we’re getting into flu territory. Also, the statistics for deaths by age come from the CDC.
[6] Signature Count. (2020, October 28). Retrieved November 18, 2020, from https://gbdeclaration.org/view-signatures/
Also, thanks to u/the_latest_greatest for finding source #5 for me.
Edit: Changed the mortality rate to the correct value after u/koista pointed out my error. Argument remains the same as it doesn’t change anything.
submitted by Sgt_Nicholas_Angel_ to LockdownSkepticism

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